Nature's Classroom: Justine Wilson on the Wonders of Forest School Education

Embark on an educational adventure where the whispers of the forest merge with the laughter of learning. Justine Wilson, the innovative mind behind Curious and Kind Education, welcomes us into a world where classrooms have no walls, and the sky's the limit for curiosity. She's not your average educator; her story of transitioning from traditional schooling to the untamed embrace of nature's arms is not just inspiring – it's a blueprint for rekindling the innate joy of learning in children. With Denmark and Sweden as beacons, we discuss how forest schools are reshaping the educational landscape, nurturing well-being, and fostering a community where every student flourishes.

Join us as we reveal how forest schools are harmonizing the spontaneity of emergent curriculum with agile learning methods. Imagine a school that sits among the trees, guiding young minds to self-direct their explorations from crafting papyrus paper to river walks. Justine provides insights into the practicalities of navigating Florida's balmy climate while maintaining comfort and safety for eager explorers. This episode is a testament to the magic that ensues when children are given the freedom to learn through play and the trust to lead their own educational journey.

Our conversation culminates with a celebration of the transformative power of forest education. We discuss the unique aspects of a forest school day, from the freedom found in an 'anarchy zone' of creative play to the tranquility of circle time beneath the open sky. We delve into why this model is a sanctuary for the neurodivergent and those with a strong sense of self, reducing disciplinary issues and fostering autonomy. Join us in thanking Justine Wilson for her pioneering spirit and consider how you can contribute to the narrative of empowering education through collaboration and community. 

To learn more about Curious and Kind Education, go to www.curiousandkind.org.

Chapters

• 0:32 Forest School Research
• 1:19 Justine Wilson Introduction
• 4:04 Forest Schools and Unschooling
• 8:18 Misconceptions
• 9:43 Aligning Forest School and Agile Learning Principles
• 14:20 Navigating Climate in Forest Schools
• 16:18 Typical Day
• 18:29 Anarchy Zone
• 20:32 Benefits
• 23:46 Advise for Parents and Educators
• 25:05 Wrap Up

Transcript

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 0:10

Welcome to the Brighter Side of Education. I'm your host, Dr. Lisa Hassler, here to enlighten and brighten the classrooms in America through focused conversation on important topics in education. In each episode I discuss problems we as teachers and parents are facing and what people are doing in their communities to fix it. What are the variables and how can we duplicate it to maximize student outcomes? Today we're diving into the world of forest schools. Disengaged students play traditional classrooms.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 0:39

Evidence suggests that by primary school, many lose interest in learning, with a third disenchanted by the end of secondary school. This lack of motivation may be due to the way school teaching and learning is organized. Forest schools, like the ones gaining traction in Denmark and Sweden, offer an alternative. In a Danish case study, the pupils expressed a significantly higher level of well-being, improve social relations and joy while being taught in the outdoors, compared to indoor classroom teaching. A Swedish study documented a stress-reducing effect on teachers using the outdoor environment for teaching. In the US, forest schools, once sparse, have seen explosive growth, especially since COVID. Today there are thousands. Joining me today to discuss forest schools is Justine Wilson. She is the founder of Curious and Kind, a forest school in Florida. Welcome to the show, justine.

Justine Wilson: 1:28

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's exciting to talk with you.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 1:32

And I can see that you're outside. I wish that our listeners could see what I'm seeing, and so I'm hoping that they're going to be able to listen to those beautiful nature sounds while we are talking, just to kind of give them that feel of being with us.

Justine Wilson: 1:47

Yeah, definitely. There's lots of oak trees, you can imagine, with the Spanish moss hanging down and I hear some birds chirping and the wind is blowing.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 1:55

Yes.

Justine Wilson: 1:56

Gorgeous day.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 1:57

It's beautiful. Could you share some of your background and what sparked your interest in forest schools?

Justine Wilson: 2:02

Yeah, sure, I started out as an educator at Los Angeles County Outdoor Science School and also I worked at a nature's classroom for a while. I loved being outside with kids, but I wanted them longer than just a few days. So I went to get my teacher training and master's degree in education at Antioch University and that just opened my mind to all the different ways people can be in schools and with kids and like interdisciplinary units and movement and being outside and I was like, yes, this is it. Then I got my first teaching job in Colorado in a public school. I was teaching fifth grade. I was the only fifth grade teacher, so I got to and I didn't have anything except a very poorly written math curriculum and a whole closet full of books. And I was like, yes, this is awesome, I get to create everything and that was a huge job doing it, but I loved it so much. Everything was really connected and the kids didn't even know if it was like science or reading or whatever, like it was just all like flowing the day.

Justine Wilson: 3:12

And then my husband and I wanted to work abroad and so we got jobs teaching abroad and then it just seemed like I've got more traditional and more traditional with each step that I was taking and ended up bringing the PYP the primary years program as part of the International Baccalaureate Curriculum to one of the schools I was working with and I felt really proud of that because it is meant to be transdisciplinary and it is meant to be inquiry based, which was exciting. So I felt like, okay, I'm taking steps like back to where my heart is as an educator. I ended up being a building principal in a few schools as well. Then COVID happened, which helped everybody reflect and realign. That was my journey through traditional school. I'm excited to talk about where I am now.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 4:05

Can you tell us what exactly is a forest school? And then how does that relate to unschooling?

Justine Wilson: 4:12

Yes, part of my journey. After being a building principal, I gave myself the gift of time to align my head and my heart. I did lots of research and lots of reading and lots of webinars and lots of just everything I could. I was like what's this and what's this? Looking into all the different ways people are educating and all the different ways kids learn and what really aligns with me and I knew it was nature. I knew it was being outside. I knew kids need to move their bodies. Well, we all need to move our bodies outside and get the sensory integration like we'd already talked about, with the wind and the birds and all the things.

Justine Wilson: 4:52

When I came upon forest school, my first thought was why is this only for little kids? I was like this is very bizarre that they do forest preschool and forest kindergarten. I was like it should be for everybody. Then I did a little bit more research and thinking and started meeting people in Sarasota community and learned about agile learning centers and where it's really interest-driven. I was like but forest school is really interest-driven. Kids explore what they're interested in. I started really connecting to that so much and in Sarasota specifically, there's a need for secular, nature-based education In the homeschooling community. They're really looking also for that socialization, for that problem-solving and creativity all the things a forest school can bring to their kids. I did a few interest surveys and it just really grew. I feel like I'm offering something that people really are interested in.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 5:59

They really are just being able to connect with nature. I don't think kids really have a lot of opportunity to play in a forest. How many of us have the opportunity, access to an outdoor environment like that that they can actually play for long periods of time? It's not just a visit, a walk with your family and then you leave. It's really being able to be inundated and immersed in that field. That's so unique. That's what really makes what you're doing so different.

Justine Wilson: 6:32

It connects to unschooling. There's a lot of variety in the homeschooling field or families that choose to homeschool. On one extreme, there's parents doing curriculum like traditional school. Then on the other side, there's unschooling, where kids are living their lives with their families and their families are, most of the time, very intentionally creating learning experiences for their kids. Maybe they're going to Mote Marine Lab that's an organization in our community or they're going to the Tampa Zoo, or they're doing STEM classes or pottery classes. They're intentionally designing life for their child's learning.

Justine Wilson: 7:18

I'm super happy to partner with anyone on their homeschooling journey to provide a space for kids to play Like we had when we were kids, maybe when our parents opened the door and let us play and would call us in when the street lights came on, or, in my case, when my mom rang the dinner bell that rang through the forest. That's like oh, my clue to come home. That's why I'm creating for kids. Here is a place for them to play in the forest. They're really developing a sense of place, a love for the trees and the lizards and the tiny frogs we saw today, you know, and all the. They feel comfortable in this environment and we're layering in like the sense of place every day and they really feel proud of it and they're getting all those benefits of this type of learning environment. And then their families are intentionally crafting the other aspects of their children's education as well.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 8:19

What kind of misconceptions about four schools do you encounter?

Justine Wilson: 8:23

I would say if someone's using the word forest school, they probably have a good idea of what it might be. I think I come across the most misconceptions when people are saying nature-based, because it's really like teachers in traditional schools can do nature-based education right Like teachers, because you can bring in sticks and you can bring in leaves and you can do art projects with leaves and it's the, which is all amazing and it's super great. There's so much diversity in what nature-based education can be. With forest schooling, I think the biggest misconception is that kids are just I'm using air quotes but like just playing, when really I'm glad you laughed because because when kids are just playing, it means that they're learning deeply, and so we want them to be playing so they're learning what interests them, like they're learning socialization and learning communication. They're practicing creativity, they're practicing regulation, they're getting to know themselves, others and the world around them, which is exactly our mission.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 9:43

How do you align your forest school principles with agile learning and education?

Justine Wilson: 9:49

Yeah, that was such a. When I came up with the blend of that, I just started like searching for others that were doing it too, and I didn't find too many. But the blend is really beautiful because in the morning we use an agile learning tool called the Kanban board to plan our day. So we meet with the kids, we call setting our day and we have a big whiteboard that we plan our morning offerings and our afternoon offerings, and an offering could be anything from having a dance party in the forest One of my favorite offerings the kids came up with was a nature fashion show and it went on for probably a week where they wanted on the offering board in the morning one of the girls was like I'd like to host a nature fashion show, and so that offering goes on the board.

Justine Wilson: 10:40

And then other offerings can be more scientific, like owl pellet dissection. Other offerings can be just pure exploration and like fort building or Legos or whatever the kids would like for their day to consist of. We host that conversation and then plan it out. One kid said my dreams always come true at Curious and Kind because we look to say yes. So anytime we can say yes to kids, we know we're doing interest based learning. They're driving their own learning. We trust them to know what they need and what they want. So every day is different, because every day they come up with new creative ideas to do and explore.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 11:28

So what kind of principles do you have then? What are your four school principles?

Justine Wilson: 11:33

Yeah, so the four school principles are really aligned around having repeat experiences in the same place. So we're always here at Unity. We do go on a field trips though as well, and then we always can come back to our home base. It's also around extended periods of time in the forest that's uninterrupted, so I'm not going in and saying, oh, you should build your fort like this, or do you wanna start a fire, because maybe that's gonna disturb their play.

Justine Wilson: 12:04

And now if a kid says, can we start a fire, then of course I have to get involved because it's fire and children in a forest. So of course, like, okay, let's hear about how we can do that, but it really is giving them a place to explore and to play. Those, I would say, are the biggest four school principles that guide us, and they deeply align to the agile learning principles. The one that I love the most is that children are humans and that they desire the same things adults desire around autonomy and control of their own selves, and so we trust them deeply to understand themselves and figure out what their next steps in learning might be and in their own development. And wherever they're at is exactly where they're meant to be, and then we, yeah, can coach them along the way as they wanna be coached.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 13:06

I love the story of when I visited your school and you said that you were waiting for them to discover the pond and finally someone had discovered the pond that had been in front of them the whole time and wanted to explore. And all of that wonderful learning that was happening with the paw prints and animal discovery, with trying to figure out who's living in the pond area and paper making with papyrus that is growing around there, that's amazing.

Justine Wilson: 13:35

Yes, like, exactly, and I couldn't have predicted that, like we were going to see a raccoon and the kids were going to want to capture the paw prints, right, and I knew there was papyrus here, but like I hadn't thought to, like, try to make paper, but the kids do, and then we follow that, you know, and we're actually on our second round of the papyrus making right now, because our first one it didn't turn out how we wanted. So we're correcting our mistakes and we're at it again.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 14:02

Well, that's wonderful learning, though. You learn through mistakes and then to try it again, to perfect it. That is what the fun is. You're just like now. I know how to do it, I know what went wrong and I want to figure out how to do it better, and I love like we can listen to the wind is really going behind you. And so that leads me to my next question about climate. A lot of times, people will assume that forest schools are only going to be able to function and thrive if you have a mild climate. But we know in Florida it gets pretty humid and hot. We have our own rain seasons and stuff. So how do you navigate Florida's elements? And then, what does a typical day look like?

Justine Wilson: 14:38

Yes, so we do have a building, which I think helps the kids feel comfortable knowing that it's there. However, they don't use it very often, but it's like, provides a sense of comfort when it is super hot out. We have a fan that a family has donated that puts out some mist. It's like a huge industrial fan that mists out cool air, you know, and the kids really enjoy that. We also have a sprinkler that will set up in a hose, connected to the building, obviously, and they will spray each other down. Well, we practice consent If you want to be sprayed down, you will be sprayed down. And then we explore the creek a lot. The first few months, the kids were in the creek a lot exploring and splashing about and, obviously, to the shade. We have a lot of shade on this property. When I was looking for a good location, that was part of what was necessary was being in the shade. So those are the biggest things.

Justine Wilson: 15:37

And as far as rain is concerned, we play in the rain as long as it's not during a lightning. So there's been several days. The kids always come with change of clothes, no matter how old they are, and I have a change of clothes here too, so we always come with a change of clothes. It's not just for little ones, it's for everybody. And there was one day where I could went through I think three outfits, you know, because it just like kept getting wet, and then they thought, okay, I'm done playing, so I'll dry off now. Oh no, I want to get wet again. So, yeah, we when it's raining. It's a great opportunity to play in the rain and to see how the plants change and what animals come out and where the best petals are.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 16:19

What does a typical day look like? So if someone comes in in the morning, how long are they there? What kinds of things do you guys do?

Justine Wilson: 16:27

Yeah, sure, we have the parents drop off at nine o'clock at Unity of Sarasota and we go inside for our circle time where we'll just play a game, the kids sit and chat and then at about nine 10, we'll go into our set the day and then that lasts about five to 10 minutes and if there's any problem that the community wants to address we'll do it at that point as well. It could be social problems, such as someone is not being included in the play, or it could be a logistical problem like the classroom's not being tidy, kept tidy. So we'll address those things. And then by 9.20, they're outside doing one of the morning offerings and if they want to change, like if they're, if we're offering the creek and fire building, but they want to change their activity, they're welcome to do that. They just let us know and then the facilitator's radio and the change, the kid changes their location, and then we have lunch at about 11.30.

Justine Wilson: 17:34

And sometimes we eat inside. Sometimes we eat outside, sometimes we set up a big, enormous mat and the kids have a picnic somewhere on property and then in the afternoon we have about 30 minutes of downtime where they'll color or tell stories to each other, or we'll do read aloud, and then in the afternoon we have a second set of offerings and then at about 1.30, everybody packs up and we gather for our closing circle where we'll debrief our day, where, if something has happened in the community that kids need to talk about, we do that, and I strongly believe in creating community, because that's what keeps kids safe, socially and emotionally and physically safe. So we do spend time in the morning and in the afternoon intentionally as a whole community, and then they kids get picked up at 2. And then our day is done. It's so fast.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 18:29

Yeah, I think that's so exciting. And then the tree stumps. What is that called?

Justine Wilson: 18:33

So we brought in about 20 stumps and we hung a rope swing and some people might call it an anarchy zone. Some people might call it a free play area although everywhere here is a free play area. But this is definitely an area like I brought in tires and I brought in long clanks of wood and then the kids have brought in stuff too. But it's the anarchy zone because there's no organization or structure. It's like the ultimate loose parts area. But the stumps are huge. So the kids get big body work when they're moving them around.

Justine Wilson: 19:16

And the other day I saw a kid. He had picked up a tire and put it on end and got a huge stick and was pushing it in a circle in the area and laughing and playing and trying to run around it, and then other kids joined in the fun. So it's like you never know what's going to happen in the anarchy zone. People also called it like a jump yard playground because it's just loose parts. Obviously they're safe.

Justine Wilson: 19:41

We remove all the nails and stuff like that, but we drill holes in the tires so that they don't hold water. We're looking out for all the hazards and things like that, but then we just put all these loose parts in this area and the kids are super creative. The obstacle course is never the same every day. It's constantly changing. And then I noticed a tire had been taken into the fort building area and they had packed it with soil and used it as one of the sides of a fort that they were building. I never can predict it, but because the anarchy zone doesn't have any rules for how to use the materials, it's all up for grabs, the freedom of choice and for advocating for themselves, and they don't even know they're doing it.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 20:32

Now you've been a principal in various schools across the world. What kind of benefits do you see for students that participate in a forest school?

Justine Wilson: 20:41

So in traditional schools we have very intense structures and it's because oftentimes the building that I was a principal of we had 750 kids before COVID and there's a need for structure. There's only so much space, there's only so much time in the day. Not everybody can go to the lunchroom at the same time. So you have to have structure to be able to be in a community To be able to educate them, and so the benefits here of the forest school is kids really move their bodies when they need to move their bodies, they eat when they need to eat, they get water when they need to get water and they're really given the autonomy that, like humans, need and that they were born with. You know, it's just that putting kids in structure can sometimes be very limiting to them, especially if kids are neurodivergent or they have very strong knowledge of themselves and they're expressing that.

Justine Wilson: 21:38

Here. We don't have really a lot of discipline problems at all because kids are getting their needs met. They're meeting their own needs in such a variety of ways. They're getting the sensory simulation and integration. The natural light is something that's very soothing, opposed to a lot of traditional schools with artificial light. It's definitely a place for schools in our society and I'm thankful that they're there and I'm thankful for all the learning that I had in those places. It is just hard when it's hundreds of kids all in one place. So I think another benefit is our cozy community. You know we have 16 kids here a day. Next year we'll have 20, but those intimate relationships in the community that's formed is really special.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 22:26

I love that you have it so that it's open up to multiple ages and then they can learn from each other the young ones with the older ones but they're together in a way that they can master their knowledge by being able to show and pass on things that they know through the age groups, which is really kind of nice.

Justine Wilson: 22:46

Yeah, it's really nice I mean it is a throwback to like the one room schoolhouse. You know where the little ones are learning just as much as the big ones and the big ones are learning different skill sets. You know to be around younger ones and the empathy in both groups that I see developing is just really phenomenal. And it's not to say we don't have problems here like we do. Kids struggle with communication and they're balancing their personal wants with the community needs and wants, and so we often like we'll put our hands up in the air like a balance, like where am I and where is the community and how do I balance that and how do I regulate myself in that? So we definitely have conflict, but we practice nonviolent communication and there's enough facilitators with the kids, and the older ones balance the younger ones and so we're able to work on all of that in dynamic ways that are responsive to kids.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 23:46

Yeah, what advice do you have for parents and educators who are interested in four schools?

Justine Wilson: 23:52

Come and see it. Come and see it and act it. Definitely, I think, being responsive and noticing what your child really gets excited about and resonates with and do more of that Right, like I always am thinking about assets based approach to people, right, like what are, what are you really good at? And then do more of it, because it's just going to keep the passion for learning alive, it's going to keep, you know, your child engaged and excited. So, whether that's art classes like do more art classes. Whether that's like playing in mud kitchen like play in the mud kitchen more we have open houses where families can come and see our school Agile Learning Center in action, because it really is different. We're reimagining education and what that can be for kids. So just exploring what works for your kid and then just taking a chance on something different can be so rewarding.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 24:52

Definitely can. I know the kids were so engaged when I went there and it was such a calm environment and everybody was happy and they were busy and they were creating. I thought it was lovely. Thank you so much for taking time to shed light on the benefits of four schools for our students.

Justine Wilson: 25:11

Yeah, it's definitely. These little opportunities are turning into amazing things all around Sarasota with all the different ways that kids can be educated now, so it's just like a very exciting time to be an education and I'm so hopeful for the future for our kids To learn more about.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 25:32

Justine Wilson and Curious and Kind Education. You can visit her website at www. curiousandkind. org.

Justine Wilson: 25:39

Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Lisa Hassler: 25:44

If you have a story about what's working in your schools that you'd like to share drlisarichardsonhassler@gmail. com you can email me at , or visit my website at www. drl isarhassler. com and send me a message. If you like this podcast, subscribe and tell a friend. The more people that know, the bigger impact it will have. And if you find value to the content in this podcast, consider becoming a supporter by clicking on the supporter link in the show notes. It is the mission of this podcast to shine light on the good in education so that it spreads, affecting positive change. So let's keep working together to find solutions that focus on our children's success.